<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/24/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Eric G Ortego</b> <<a href="mailto:ericortego@gmail.com">ericortego@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<span class="q"><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/24/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Andrew Baudouin</b> <<a href="mailto:andrewmb@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">andrewmb@gmail.com
</a>> wrote:</span><br>
</span><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div><br>
ACPI and laptop hardware has been supported better on Windows since before Linux distributions even thought about supporting it.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
</div></span>Are you actually going to give well-thought out examples or just continue to spew opinions?</div></blockquote><div><br>
Not an opinion. If you had read my reply to Will you would have
realized it. In 1998 I had a 300Mhz PII Thinkpad running Windows 98
which could suspend and resume with opening and closing of the
lid. Suse 6.2/Whatever 2.2 kernel I was running side-by-side with
it barfed. My statement was true. <span style="font-weight: bold;">Historically, Windows supports hardware and power management better than Linux distributions do</span>.
I can come up with anecdotal evidence RIGHT NOW (TM) that current Linux
distros suck arse at hardware support and power management, but that is
what it is...anecdotal.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div>Of the laptop toting XP users I have met they are
all amazed at how fast my desktop is ready, right where I left off I
might add, when I open the lid. I have used XP on several laptops and
in allot of instances(maybe caused by
some human) the laptop won't sleep and wake as I expect, instead
just "regular" shutdowns and starts ups, or worse the battery drains to
death while "sleeping." When they do hibernate it takes considerably
longer and that on machines about 3 times the speed of my own.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
I wouldn't be surprised if 100% of those issues were human related
(certain drivers for hardware not playing nice). My IBM Thinkpad
w/533E Celeron works just dandy suspending and resuming under Windows
2000.<br>
<br>
I won't make an argument about present day support for Linux suspending and resuming...it's an historical one.<br>
<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
This wins the made-up statistics award for 2005.</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
Aren't 99% of all statistics made up on the spot? But it is sad that generalizations are too often accepted at face value. </div></div></blockquote><div><br>
I wasn't the one making said generalizations.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>You remind me of the
LSU/Les Miles bashers who invent things like "LSU was #1 in recruiting
under Nick Saban....The defense never gave up this many yards under
Nick Saban"</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
O.o *beware* mud puddle, slippery when wet.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
:D<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
The application icons never change position. As you open more programs they stack to the right. </div></div></blockquote></span><div> <br>
Icons do change place when a domain computer abruptly dies reverting to
an older copy of the profile, I see this every single day on multiple
PC's. NT, 2000, XP on seperate networks.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
He's not talking about that issue. Read the message.
Besides, how is that a problem? Different profiles have different
application icon settings.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
This is simply fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Name an open-source
application, and there is probably a windows build for it. </div>
</div></blockquote></span><div><br>
For the most you are correct, but doesn't that say something about the quality of those open source applications? <br>
The design surely must be more thought out. From the small differences
like system logging, to the larger like drawing to the windowing
system. They have to account for all types of systems they wish their
code to run on.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
Not really. It's a matter of standardizing on toolkits. All
of those use GTK (windows port is available). The toolkits handle
all of the underlying syscalls. <br>
<br>
User applications shouldn't make a habit of writing to the syslog anyway.<br>
<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>GiMP,
gaIM, OpenOffice, X-Chat....all have windows builds. Infact, the
X=Chat developers insidiously charge money for the windows
builds. </div>
</div></blockquote></span><div><br>
Whats wrong with charging money for software? Build it yourself if you
think paying the authors or the builders is insidious. Sheesh, I decry
a hypocrite.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
You are the champ at not reading messages. I was poking at Will
because his champion free software developers were *GASP* charging
money for software! <br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div> Would you go as far as to say that those
applications have trojans?</div>
</div></blockquote></span><div><br>
You can audit the code your self if you fear that there may be malware
included. Not the case for closed source apps, or even closed source
freeware.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
Again, you aren't reading. He was saying he trusts the
repositoires of Debian and doesn't trust <a href="http://sourceforge.net">sourceforge.net</a> win32 builds
of free software.<br>
<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
You better stop now while you're ahead.</div>
</div></blockquote></span><div><br>
Heh<br>
</div><span class="q"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Out of the box, XP does not<br>even include a spell checker. I need the red letters kmail and most other
<br>free text editors give me. I also want tools like a spreadsheet, iso writer,<br>compiler and so on. I was amazed to learn that XP Home does not include<br>programs, like flash, Real, Xine, xmms, noatum and so on, for watching movies
<br>or listening to music the way that Mepis does. The average person who really<br>uses their computer for work and play will have to dig up dozens of extra<br>applications. It would cost me hundreds of dollars to duplicate what Debian
<br>provides at no cost.</blockquote></span><div><br>
This is an outright lie.</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
How is that a lie?</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
"<span class="q"><span>It would cost me hundreds of dollars to duplicate what Debian
<br>provides at no cost." is a lie. <br>
<br>
Real and Flash are free. WMP/Winamp is a free replacement for
xmms, xine, and noatun. You can get XP Home for under a hundred
dollars and all of the rest for free. <br>
<br>
It is a lie.</span></span><br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
Debian provides nothing. </div></div></blockquote><div><br>
Debian provides package management tools. Pretty good ones.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
Way to quote edited parts of my sentence. Mature.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
First of all, Winamp is free and that takes care of all of the aforementioned needs. </div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
But Winamp doesn't come with XP either.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
WMP does...and that destroys your argument. Besides, winamp is a <span style="font-weight: bold;">free</span>
piece of software, and I was arguing that end. He was saying he
has to pay hundreds of dollars to get equivalent versions of noatun,
xmms, and xine.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div> It is <span style="font-weight: bold;">actually easier</span>
to download the Winamp installation build from their website than use
Debian's apt-get utility. <br>
</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
<br>
Maybe so, maybe as easy, maybe not... if you put 2 computer-ignorant
people on PC's (XP & mepis) telling one to install Winamp and the
other to install xmms I would put my nickle on the mepis luser to
finish first. If you show them how to do it then ask them a week later
to do it again, I would still put my nickle on the mepis luser.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
Then you would lose.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
Why do you feel the need to make up things to support your argument?</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
Aren't 99% of all statistics made up on the spot? Its sad that
often generalizations can actually work to convince others.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
No generalization would convince anyone to switch from Windows.<br>
</div><br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"></span><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
Let's say you sold widgets and competed with a lot of other
companies who also sell widgets. WOuld you not do everything
legally and ethically possible to make sure everyone buys your and ONLY
YOUR widgets?</div></div>
</blockquote></span><div><br>
<br>
I would not, because there is nothing ethical about doing everything
legally possible to make sure everyone buys *only my* widgets. What you
describe sounds allot like Communism, and a bit like the essence of
Microsoft. In a free market I should do everything legally and
ethically possible to try to convince you that you want to buy my
widget and make sure you know if you have bought the widget which I
sell. To suggest that I(or my company) should do everything legally
& ethically possible to eliminate the choice of which widget
everyone can buy sounds socialist. </div></div></blockquote><div><br>
There sure is. Businesses everywhere do it all of the time.
Undercutting price and adding value is one way. Making sure your
support of widgets is superior is another way. How is that
communist?<br>
<br>
Microsoft beat Unix and high-dollar software vendors by undercutting
price. They are trying to beat Linux right now by adding value
and usabillity. They are losing on price and Linux is steadily
gaining, IMO.<br>
<br>
Forcing everyone to share and freely give away all of the software they write is what is communist.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
People who rant about this show their absolute lack of understanding of all things business-related.</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
Ranting does not show lack of understanding, maybe lack of self control and maybe overzealous conviction.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
I'll potentially agree with you on there.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
By the way, what do you make of all of the bugs and insecurities that
have showed up in Firefox now that it has reache dcritical mass?</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
Disclosed, therefore avoidable & likely to be fixed.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
Yet common arguments that OSS is better due to number of bugs alone doesn't hold water.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>
No "Linux" "has" ssh. </div></div></blockquote><div><br>
No windows has a mouse.<br>
</div><span class="q"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div>All require you to download from an
internet repository. </div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
Most *nix distributions come with openssh installed just like most PC's come with a mouse.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
Good point. <br>
<br>
However, that's at least considering that openssh is a requirement to do work, which it isn't.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Free softare is all about sharing, non free is all about sucking money. The<br>net result is that non free software is expensive and difficult to use where
<br>free software is cheap and easy.</blockquote></span><div><br>
You are a liar.</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>
lol, you are a funny.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>
omgwtfbbq?<br>
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